Exploring the hidden costs of extreme loyalty and the paradox of loneliness in collectivistic cultures. Discover solutions for deepening friendships across cultural barriers.
Congrats on the first voiceover, Tiffany - sounds great!
I hear you. An opinion - I think our Asian culture tends to lack emotional self-awareness and in turn, we lose the granularity to discuss emotions in our conversations. Much of that can be suppressed when the family unit holds greater power than the individual. 'The 'duty' to the greater family good/status' overshadows an individual's feelings. I also think diaspora and global travel/migration have led to conflicting cultural reference points and relationship dynamics. How we 'identify' and our sense of identity is a greater kaleidoscope with more shifts than previous generations...I'm still reflecting, since I don't 'fit' labels and side-step assumptions, especially now as a carer. Thankfully, curiosity & learning help me reimagine the shifting frame of reference!
Thanks, Victoria! I agree with you there. A lot of Asian culture has been focused on survival, which makes sense, given our history. One of my aunts once said, "When we were growing up, it was good enough that we had enough to eat. (Your grandma) didn't have the capacity to worry about our emotional needs."
You bring up valid points about diaspora and identity, labels, etc. It's a multi-layered issue worth sifting through and thinking about. Many, many factors contribute, and yes, a huge emphasis on the family unit leads to suppression of individual needs, too.
Beautifully surmised. I think we could make a very long list of 'those phrases' that 1st gen-born in West, often hear. The tapestry threads can be pulled in many different directions and ways. I look forward to reading more of your thoughts!
Tiffany, this was such an interesting read! You had me hooked when you talked about self-isolation and privacy. And then I reflected on how much of this might have come from my own upbringing in Asia: I wonder how much of my understanding of relationships and vulnerability is Asian in style, having spent those formative years surrounded by that way of doing things. Really thought-provoking!
Hi Tiffany, I read my short stories too, you did great! 🥳 I didn’t notice any of the flaws you thought were in there! And I know how it feels as I hear every little stumble when I’m reading aloud.
Friendship is super important to me. My best friend lives in Florida and I live in NYC. This is the closest we lived together in terms of distance since college. But we talk several times a week and we’ve helped each other through some of the darkest parts of our lives. I have other friends too, but not many. It’s really hard to make new friends as I get older but I’ve made some. Several from my men’s group. I am very loyal and I believe in being a “good friend.” This had put me in positions where I felt my generosity of time and money was not being appreciated, but I have zero problem confronting people. This ruffled feathers but if I can’t talk straight with you then we can’t be friends. To that case I’ve had some “friend heartbreaks” where I had to stop being friends because I saw they were only calling or talking to me when they wanted something and were acting like a friend. If you’re my friend then you’re in, I give a lot because I like how it feels. But I have the balance with the ability to express how I feel and confront behavior, in a calm and unthreatening way to get to the root cause of a matter. Sometimes that’s ended the friendship but more often than not, it’s deepened the friendship and we realized how we were triggering unhealthy behaviors in each other and understood the other person’s perspective. That’s really what a good friend does. Someone who values the friendship more than their own needs and ego. Well done Tiffany! Very interesting topics.
Thank you, Chris! I was pretty nervous about recording, but it turned out to be pretty fun. I remember you value friendships highly, which I really respect. My husband's best friend lives across the country, but they've been friends since middle school and share so much of their lives even though they haven't lived in the same city since then. That's always impressed me, and also shows me how these life-giving friendships are possible in spite of distance.
I've also been where you have, where I give a lot to my friendships, only to realise the person isn't willing to invest the same effort in me. It does lead to friend heartbreaks, which I think is just as painful as romantic heartbreak.
So good to hear about another man putting in the work! I say work, but every moment is a joy. When we get together we are like two eight year olds. We laugh and have a ton of fun Maybe knowing we only see each other a few times a year, we loon forward to it and value the time deeply. Especially now as we no there are more years behind us than in front of us. 🤣
I love that for you! My husband texts his best friend every single day, and I can always tell because he has this stupid smile on his face and I joke that he's having an affair but it's always just Jerod. It makes me happy.
Yep! Men with really good friendships, that are healthy, supportive and positive don’t cheat because we call out behaviors that show a lack of integrity or are disrespectful.
Tiffany, thanks for the shoutout, and it’s nice to hear your voice in the audio - it’s appealing, and it’s worth doing. I confess I didn’t listen to the whole thing, because I prefer to read a long essay like this - but that’s me.
And I really appreciate the way you approach complex questions of loneliness and friendship, throwing cross-cultural differences into the mix. I agree, America’s cultural emphasis on individualism isn’t the only thing that causes loneliness. I like that you point to undue emphasis on loyalty, no matter what. Beyond Asian collectivism, I think loyalty may be a cultural value that contributes to some of the red/blue political divide; the “chosen” sensibility in some churches (we are the saved, everyone else will be a leftover at the Rapture); and the co-dependence dynamic in dysfunctional families, which was part of my growing up.
One last thought: I know from my experience as a writing instructor - and from engaged discussions of personal essays like this - that some of the truest connections come through written words. Conversing with others, especially about those failures and regrets that Richardson thinks should be “ritualized,” can feel safer if there’s a screen. It’s a start, anyway 😉
Thanks, Martha! I also prefer reading to listening, but hopefully for those who prefer audio.. Well anyways haha.
You bring up a good point with the polarized political landscape these days. That's something I've been thinking about as well, especially this year (ugh). There can be a blindness to that sort of loyalty, but we could go off on a long tangent there about the decline of critical thinking......
So true, and I agree with that too, as someone who expresses herself much more easily through writing than speech.
I think learning personal mechanisms is very important when we discuss friendships in general, whether their individual or collectivistic natures, since it is these mechanisms that help us realise what balance of both is needed for what kind of friendship. This is a great post, and I love your willingness to explore everything to understand and formulate thoughts on a topic! Thanks for sharing :D
Yes, although culture has a significant impact, it's definitely not the full story. It's interesting being in between cultures and having the benefit of seeing things from both.
Thank you, Tiffany, for this thoughtful and engaging article. I am so honored by your call-out; you are deeply generous and kind. And I love your reading voice.
Your remarks about the significance of culture in shaping our interactions were especially insightful. I have a friend of many years who does sometimes bring up family issues that I find perplexing.
At the same time, I grew up with “Minnesota Nice,” which can be a form of indirect, often passive-aggressive communication. It is absolutely baked into me. It can be shocking to hear someone voice a negative opinion publicly; the code words are “interesting” and “different.” You know the meaning, but can’t call that person out. The list of such behaviors is long. I’m sure dissertations have been written about them. I might do a post on how Minnesota Nice Is not. Or maybe not. I don’t want to be “different.”😊
You are so kind, Mary. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I've heard of versions of "Minnesota Nice," namely people from the southern parts of the U.S., where friends who grew up there have said people are friendly but don't engage on a deeper level. I'd be interested in reading a post on Minnesota (not) Nice from you!
I guess we all have our own ways of evading intimacy, and it comes down to a deeply human fear of being seen, because then we can be rejected. Better to be rejected for an incomplete or fake version ourselves, right?
In south Asian culture too, there’s a kind of transaction to acts of kindness. The banking metaphor of debts and credits is one I hear all the time!! If someone deposits in my account, I have to make a deposit in their account. Ugh, it’s frustrating. But I liked your breakdown and how you analyzed this .
Exactly! It makes me hesitant to accept "deposits," not knowing what will be expected of me in return and whether I will incur resentment if I fall short in some way. Thank you for your thoughts, Sadia.
I think that the most profound loneliness can exist in families when persons do not subscribe to the dominant narrative or dynamic. What appears to be close-knit is in reality dangerously conditional. I have experienced this with my in-law family.
Another very relatable post. As a South Asian, I felt like you might as well have been writing about my culture and it’s transactional reciprocity and everyone being up in each other’s business. But as a single mom who lost a lot of community support in my decision to divorce, I feel the loneliness of living in that culture while still prioritizing the American sanctity of my privacy. The latter has been essential for my healing and sense of safety, but it’s also been isolating and lonely. I 100% agree with your assertion that we need to work on developing deep connections with each other and honoring depth and the messiness of reality over pristine appearances. Thank you for this!💕
Thank you so much, Nida. We share a lot of similarities in culture, I think. It's a delicate balance of preserving your emotional health while being able to remain connected with people, and I agree it's so, so hard, especially when your community doesn't support your life decisions. I'm so sorry you have to endure that isolation, and wish I had better words. But I see you and hear you, Nida.
This is such a great piece, Tiffany and one that is so needed. I'm going through the difficulty right now of having to find a friend I can have those deep conversations with without judgment or fixing unless asked. Not too easy to find. It took me years of therapy and years of meditative self awareness practice to see the benefit of letting those personal demons out. Thankfully, my psychologist wife, absolutely fosters and promotes safe, loving, secure communication in our relationship so I'm missing that element of intimacy when it comes to my guy friends. Thanks for this, Tiffany. By the way, I recently started doing voice overs on my posting, hems, hahs and flubs included. I've gotten nothing but positive feedback and I loved your voice over.
Thank you, Steve. Those friendships are so hard to find - I love that you have your wife and therapy to gain healing. I've also only come to this point of being willing to open up more to my friends after years of therapy and reaching a really low point in my life, but it took a lot. I'm still learning. I hope for you that you find a friend you can really connect with soon. And thanks for the voiceover feedback hehe.
"Kindness given was not meant as a kindness in and of itself, but only a deposit in the bank, to be withdrawn at a future date."
This rings so true in Asian culture, and in many cases — not just with friends, but also family. Unconditional love seems to be rare; I'd forgotten that 欠人情 as a phrase exists until I read this piece. It's incredibly fascinating how different flavors of loneliness exist across cultures, like you observed. Thank you for bringing up how these ideas of connection, friendships, and isolation all seem to impact each other.
Excellent article. You covered this topic so well. I could relate to so much of what you said. Your stories brought to mind the term guanxi and how this concept is followed in China. It’s interesting that in the culture of individual families (regardless of background or heritage) sometimes guilt or duty take precedence over giving from the heart with pure motives. I remember Asian students in the US talking with me about friendship. I’m very thankful for some healthy, grace filled friendships that don’t feel at all transactional. I like to think in terms of love bonds versus fear bonds. Freedom and joy can grow in relationships unhindered by obligation or indebtedness. Thanks for this wonderful exploration of crucial aspects of relationships.
Thank you, Susan. It really is an interesting dynamic. I like to think that mine and subsequent generations have more pure-hearted generosity, as you said. Bringing awareness to it is a first step.
the voiceover is so amazing i'm so so proudddd. Also why did I find so may of these points relatable help. I read about this mud theory where when you find a friend "sitting in mud" rather than waiting for them to get out of it themselves and giving them space as we normally do, you're supposed to sit with them in that mud for as long as it take for them to get out of it and I think that's what we kinda need these days.
I like that phrase, "sitting in the mud." I've also heard "staying in the trenches" with people, which is similar. And you're right; we do need more of it. We're too focused on trying to get people to quickly move on, but so much of the time, that's because we're uncomfortable with their negative emotions.
Hi Tiffany, this was such an insightful and thought-provoking read. I really resonate with your observations about the transactionality and conditionality that lie beneath the idea of "close-knit" family and social relations in collectivist cultures, including the way it translates into lack of personal boundaries and privacy for the individual. With the "ties that bind" being defined by transactionality and enforced conformity to these norms, it's perhaps not surprising that loneliness is one of the prevalent and pervasive outcomes.
I've also reflected and written on my personal experiences with loneliness within the collectivist culture in which I grew up, and I realised that another key root source of this loneliness I've experienced is the emphasis on adhering to the societally prescribed appearances and behaviours of familial harmony and success, much at the expense of an individual's emotional and psychological integrity. It has been unprecedentedly freeing and emotionally nourishing for me to have made the decision to prioritize my self-integrity and personal traditions over that which had been prescribed by the collective. Thank you for sharing this!
Thank you, Suyin. Your insights gave me more to think about, especially your thoughts on the rigid rules and emphasis on appearances. I've mentioned briefly that in the related post, but I think it's worth exploring some more. These issues are so nuanced and complicated! I'm really glad we can talk about them.
Congrats on the first voiceover, Tiffany - sounds great!
I hear you. An opinion - I think our Asian culture tends to lack emotional self-awareness and in turn, we lose the granularity to discuss emotions in our conversations. Much of that can be suppressed when the family unit holds greater power than the individual. 'The 'duty' to the greater family good/status' overshadows an individual's feelings. I also think diaspora and global travel/migration have led to conflicting cultural reference points and relationship dynamics. How we 'identify' and our sense of identity is a greater kaleidoscope with more shifts than previous generations...I'm still reflecting, since I don't 'fit' labels and side-step assumptions, especially now as a carer. Thankfully, curiosity & learning help me reimagine the shifting frame of reference!
Thanks, Victoria! I agree with you there. A lot of Asian culture has been focused on survival, which makes sense, given our history. One of my aunts once said, "When we were growing up, it was good enough that we had enough to eat. (Your grandma) didn't have the capacity to worry about our emotional needs."
You bring up valid points about diaspora and identity, labels, etc. It's a multi-layered issue worth sifting through and thinking about. Many, many factors contribute, and yes, a huge emphasis on the family unit leads to suppression of individual needs, too.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts here!
Beautifully surmised. I think we could make a very long list of 'those phrases' that 1st gen-born in West, often hear. The tapestry threads can be pulled in many different directions and ways. I look forward to reading more of your thoughts!
For sure haha. We probably all have a collection of those phrases.
Tiffany, this was such an interesting read! You had me hooked when you talked about self-isolation and privacy. And then I reflected on how much of this might have come from my own upbringing in Asia: I wonder how much of my understanding of relationships and vulnerability is Asian in style, having spent those formative years surrounded by that way of doing things. Really thought-provoking!
Thank you, Holly! Your upbringing sounds like it would be so interesting to explore, as to how much is influenced by Asian culture.
Hi Tiffany, I read my short stories too, you did great! 🥳 I didn’t notice any of the flaws you thought were in there! And I know how it feels as I hear every little stumble when I’m reading aloud.
Friendship is super important to me. My best friend lives in Florida and I live in NYC. This is the closest we lived together in terms of distance since college. But we talk several times a week and we’ve helped each other through some of the darkest parts of our lives. I have other friends too, but not many. It’s really hard to make new friends as I get older but I’ve made some. Several from my men’s group. I am very loyal and I believe in being a “good friend.” This had put me in positions where I felt my generosity of time and money was not being appreciated, but I have zero problem confronting people. This ruffled feathers but if I can’t talk straight with you then we can’t be friends. To that case I’ve had some “friend heartbreaks” where I had to stop being friends because I saw they were only calling or talking to me when they wanted something and were acting like a friend. If you’re my friend then you’re in, I give a lot because I like how it feels. But I have the balance with the ability to express how I feel and confront behavior, in a calm and unthreatening way to get to the root cause of a matter. Sometimes that’s ended the friendship but more often than not, it’s deepened the friendship and we realized how we were triggering unhealthy behaviors in each other and understood the other person’s perspective. That’s really what a good friend does. Someone who values the friendship more than their own needs and ego. Well done Tiffany! Very interesting topics.
Thank you, Chris! I was pretty nervous about recording, but it turned out to be pretty fun. I remember you value friendships highly, which I really respect. My husband's best friend lives across the country, but they've been friends since middle school and share so much of their lives even though they haven't lived in the same city since then. That's always impressed me, and also shows me how these life-giving friendships are possible in spite of distance.
I've also been where you have, where I give a lot to my friendships, only to realise the person isn't willing to invest the same effort in me. It does lead to friend heartbreaks, which I think is just as painful as romantic heartbreak.
Thank you for seeing me Tiffany. ☺️
So good to hear about another man putting in the work! I say work, but every moment is a joy. When we get together we are like two eight year olds. We laugh and have a ton of fun Maybe knowing we only see each other a few times a year, we loon forward to it and value the time deeply. Especially now as we no there are more years behind us than in front of us. 🤣
I love that for you! My husband texts his best friend every single day, and I can always tell because he has this stupid smile on his face and I joke that he's having an affair but it's always just Jerod. It makes me happy.
Yep! Men with really good friendships, that are healthy, supportive and positive don’t cheat because we call out behaviors that show a lack of integrity or are disrespectful.
Tiffany, thanks for the shoutout, and it’s nice to hear your voice in the audio - it’s appealing, and it’s worth doing. I confess I didn’t listen to the whole thing, because I prefer to read a long essay like this - but that’s me.
And I really appreciate the way you approach complex questions of loneliness and friendship, throwing cross-cultural differences into the mix. I agree, America’s cultural emphasis on individualism isn’t the only thing that causes loneliness. I like that you point to undue emphasis on loyalty, no matter what. Beyond Asian collectivism, I think loyalty may be a cultural value that contributes to some of the red/blue political divide; the “chosen” sensibility in some churches (we are the saved, everyone else will be a leftover at the Rapture); and the co-dependence dynamic in dysfunctional families, which was part of my growing up.
One last thought: I know from my experience as a writing instructor - and from engaged discussions of personal essays like this - that some of the truest connections come through written words. Conversing with others, especially about those failures and regrets that Richardson thinks should be “ritualized,” can feel safer if there’s a screen. It’s a start, anyway 😉
Thanks, Martha! I also prefer reading to listening, but hopefully for those who prefer audio.. Well anyways haha.
You bring up a good point with the polarized political landscape these days. That's something I've been thinking about as well, especially this year (ugh). There can be a blindness to that sort of loyalty, but we could go off on a long tangent there about the decline of critical thinking......
So true, and I agree with that too, as someone who expresses herself much more easily through writing than speech.
I think learning personal mechanisms is very important when we discuss friendships in general, whether their individual or collectivistic natures, since it is these mechanisms that help us realise what balance of both is needed for what kind of friendship. This is a great post, and I love your willingness to explore everything to understand and formulate thoughts on a topic! Thanks for sharing :D
Yes, although culture has a significant impact, it's definitely not the full story. It's interesting being in between cultures and having the benefit of seeing things from both.
Thank you, Tiffany, for this thoughtful and engaging article. I am so honored by your call-out; you are deeply generous and kind. And I love your reading voice.
Your remarks about the significance of culture in shaping our interactions were especially insightful. I have a friend of many years who does sometimes bring up family issues that I find perplexing.
At the same time, I grew up with “Minnesota Nice,” which can be a form of indirect, often passive-aggressive communication. It is absolutely baked into me. It can be shocking to hear someone voice a negative opinion publicly; the code words are “interesting” and “different.” You know the meaning, but can’t call that person out. The list of such behaviors is long. I’m sure dissertations have been written about them. I might do a post on how Minnesota Nice Is not. Or maybe not. I don’t want to be “different.”😊
You are so kind, Mary. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I've heard of versions of "Minnesota Nice," namely people from the southern parts of the U.S., where friends who grew up there have said people are friendly but don't engage on a deeper level. I'd be interested in reading a post on Minnesota (not) Nice from you!
I guess we all have our own ways of evading intimacy, and it comes down to a deeply human fear of being seen, because then we can be rejected. Better to be rejected for an incomplete or fake version ourselves, right?
In south Asian culture too, there’s a kind of transaction to acts of kindness. The banking metaphor of debts and credits is one I hear all the time!! If someone deposits in my account, I have to make a deposit in their account. Ugh, it’s frustrating. But I liked your breakdown and how you analyzed this .
Exactly! It makes me hesitant to accept "deposits," not knowing what will be expected of me in return and whether I will incur resentment if I fall short in some way. Thank you for your thoughts, Sadia.
I think that the most profound loneliness can exist in families when persons do not subscribe to the dominant narrative or dynamic. What appears to be close-knit is in reality dangerously conditional. I have experienced this with my in-law family.
I really enjoyed reading your reflection.
That is so true. I've felt that in my own family as well. Thank you, Annette.
Another very relatable post. As a South Asian, I felt like you might as well have been writing about my culture and it’s transactional reciprocity and everyone being up in each other’s business. But as a single mom who lost a lot of community support in my decision to divorce, I feel the loneliness of living in that culture while still prioritizing the American sanctity of my privacy. The latter has been essential for my healing and sense of safety, but it’s also been isolating and lonely. I 100% agree with your assertion that we need to work on developing deep connections with each other and honoring depth and the messiness of reality over pristine appearances. Thank you for this!💕
Thank you so much, Nida. We share a lot of similarities in culture, I think. It's a delicate balance of preserving your emotional health while being able to remain connected with people, and I agree it's so, so hard, especially when your community doesn't support your life decisions. I'm so sorry you have to endure that isolation, and wish I had better words. But I see you and hear you, Nida.
This is such a great piece, Tiffany and one that is so needed. I'm going through the difficulty right now of having to find a friend I can have those deep conversations with without judgment or fixing unless asked. Not too easy to find. It took me years of therapy and years of meditative self awareness practice to see the benefit of letting those personal demons out. Thankfully, my psychologist wife, absolutely fosters and promotes safe, loving, secure communication in our relationship so I'm missing that element of intimacy when it comes to my guy friends. Thanks for this, Tiffany. By the way, I recently started doing voice overs on my posting, hems, hahs and flubs included. I've gotten nothing but positive feedback and I loved your voice over.
Thank you, Steve. Those friendships are so hard to find - I love that you have your wife and therapy to gain healing. I've also only come to this point of being willing to open up more to my friends after years of therapy and reaching a really low point in my life, but it took a lot. I'm still learning. I hope for you that you find a friend you can really connect with soon. And thanks for the voiceover feedback hehe.
"Kindness given was not meant as a kindness in and of itself, but only a deposit in the bank, to be withdrawn at a future date."
This rings so true in Asian culture, and in many cases — not just with friends, but also family. Unconditional love seems to be rare; I'd forgotten that 欠人情 as a phrase exists until I read this piece. It's incredibly fascinating how different flavors of loneliness exist across cultures, like you observed. Thank you for bringing up how these ideas of connection, friendships, and isolation all seem to impact each other.
Such a thoughtful comment, Yina. Thank you. Ugh, yes that phrase is atrocious to me..
Excellent article. You covered this topic so well. I could relate to so much of what you said. Your stories brought to mind the term guanxi and how this concept is followed in China. It’s interesting that in the culture of individual families (regardless of background or heritage) sometimes guilt or duty take precedence over giving from the heart with pure motives. I remember Asian students in the US talking with me about friendship. I’m very thankful for some healthy, grace filled friendships that don’t feel at all transactional. I like to think in terms of love bonds versus fear bonds. Freedom and joy can grow in relationships unhindered by obligation or indebtedness. Thanks for this wonderful exploration of crucial aspects of relationships.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/guanxi.asp#:~:text=Guanxi%20(pronounced%20gwan'%20CHē),new%20business%20and%20facilitate%20deals.
Thank you, Susan. It really is an interesting dynamic. I like to think that mine and subsequent generations have more pure-hearted generosity, as you said. Bringing awareness to it is a first step.
I agree. I appreciate you exploring this topic so well. Thank you. Awareness is really important.
To me that's not what friendship is for. And giving should be done simply to give. Otherwise just pay for service. Nicely done
Exactly how I think about too! Thank you, Trevy.
the voiceover is so amazing i'm so so proudddd. Also why did I find so may of these points relatable help. I read about this mud theory where when you find a friend "sitting in mud" rather than waiting for them to get out of it themselves and giving them space as we normally do, you're supposed to sit with them in that mud for as long as it take for them to get out of it and I think that's what we kinda need these days.
I like that phrase, "sitting in the mud." I've also heard "staying in the trenches" with people, which is similar. And you're right; we do need more of it. We're too focused on trying to get people to quickly move on, but so much of the time, that's because we're uncomfortable with their negative emotions.
Hi Tiffany, this was such an insightful and thought-provoking read. I really resonate with your observations about the transactionality and conditionality that lie beneath the idea of "close-knit" family and social relations in collectivist cultures, including the way it translates into lack of personal boundaries and privacy for the individual. With the "ties that bind" being defined by transactionality and enforced conformity to these norms, it's perhaps not surprising that loneliness is one of the prevalent and pervasive outcomes.
I've also reflected and written on my personal experiences with loneliness within the collectivist culture in which I grew up, and I realised that another key root source of this loneliness I've experienced is the emphasis on adhering to the societally prescribed appearances and behaviours of familial harmony and success, much at the expense of an individual's emotional and psychological integrity. It has been unprecedentedly freeing and emotionally nourishing for me to have made the decision to prioritize my self-integrity and personal traditions over that which had been prescribed by the collective. Thank you for sharing this!
Thank you, Suyin. Your insights gave me more to think about, especially your thoughts on the rigid rules and emphasis on appearances. I've mentioned briefly that in the related post, but I think it's worth exploring some more. These issues are so nuanced and complicated! I'm really glad we can talk about them.